Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Hello, I am Sim Book; the CEO of Apple. We've been at loggerheads with Android and Google for quite a few years now. It is however interesting to discuss the history of Nokia, a company which had already made its mark in the mobile phone sector before we introduced ourselves there.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Hello, Kristian Pushola here. I may have a funny name, but that hasn't deterred me from getting to the top management at Nokia. I'm with the company for almost 20 years and the CFO.

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: Hi, good day to everyone. I'm Dr. Oh-No Lost, the CEO of Samsung Electronics. In my career, I have been focused on creating great hardware - smaller but better.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: We are really excited that we are discussing Nokia today. Irrespective of the pitiable position that it is in today, Finnish people and the world love Nokia.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Of course, Nokia has always come across as a very reliable brand amongst users in the world. My guess is, pretty much everyone's first phone was a Nokia. If not, they've at least used it at some point in their lives.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Definitely! Before the iPhone came out, Nokia was the market leader in mobile phones. Since then, it has started plummeting.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: True, it is no longer as good as it used to be. But before we go on to discuss the rise and fall of Nokia, does anyone here know when did Nokia start?

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: Well, Apple and Microsoft were started in the 1970s, Samsung is much older - 1938. Nokia can't be older than Samsung.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Well, I beg to differ. Nokia started in 1865. It was established by Fredrik Idestam, a mining engineer. To put things into perspective, Nokia already had more than 100 years of legacy before Apple or Microsoft even hit the market.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Oh! 1865 - it couldn't have started with phones then. What were the first businesses that it ventured into? Samsung, for example, has started with grocery trading.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Something totally different. We were a wood pulp mill. When a second mill was set up on the banks of the river Nokia, Fredrick (the founder) named the company Nokia.

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: Interesting...And where and how did it expand?

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: Soon Nokia expanded into other industries such as rubber, cables, tyres, TVs, boots and more. So it's safe to say that the early Nokia was a completely different company to the one that you know and love.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Actually, we don't love it a lot. How did they finally come into the electronics and mobile phone business that they are in today?

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: It was all in the mid-to-late 1960s, when the conflict between US and USSR wasn't so ice cold and nuclear war was actually a possibility. I was very young then, but my parents were worried, too. The Communist superpower, the USSR was testing their bombs, and the steadfast capitalist USA was testing their bombs - and testing with increasing ferocity.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: Although Finland has been a neutral nation, we were worried about our security, were preparing for the worst. The Finnish government wanted military research into radiotelephone communications to help their country realize the full potential of reliable military communication.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: And that contract was awarded to our little company called Nokia. We developed the expertise developing communication; later developed a civilian radio car telephone network that spans the whole country. By 1978, we had already provided coverage to the entire country.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: Yeah, the country was happy with your work. By the 1980s, they were really big, with better technology and economies of scale. They expanded into the US market, and their products were very well received.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: So, by this time, Nokia had started making wireless devices?

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Yes, although they were bulky (one of our phones weighed more than 10 kgs) and had very small screens, people loved them. They loved the concept of a numeric keypad, as opposed to the circular disc they were used to.

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: Nokia's products are good, no doubt. But the stroke of luck for Nokia was media coverage of the fact that the leader of the USSR was frequently using Nokia phones. That gave you the international visibility that you'd never have otherwise.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: Not really, that was really temporary. Because soon, in 1989 the Soviet Union collapsed and the recession of Europe made it difficult to even run the day to day operations.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Oh, and the Americans came to the rescue of the Europeans. You got Jorma Ollila of Citi Bank as CEO. And it was a good decision. As a banker, he surely knew a thing or two about management.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Yes, the key decision that he took was shutting down redundant projects and focusing solely on Nokia's mobile phones.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Yes, they were the first ones to come with smaller phones and put Panasonic and Motorola out of competition. Nokia was booming in the 1990s and early 2000s. This was its golden period. In fact, by 2005 Nokia had already sold 1 billion phones.

Saudi Niinistö (President, Finland) :
President: They launched the first smartphone in 1996. They were the first ones to come up with text messaging, picture messaging. They were practically dictating what other companies should have done. And their iconic games like Snake were really liked by the public. The focus on Symbian - the OS/software for the phone helped them build an interactive UI for users.

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: I still remember that the models 2110 and 1100 were a rage back then. With new models, they transformed cell phones from 'business/work communicaction devices' to 'gadgets for everybody.' The 1100 is the world's most selling phone so far with over 250 million pieces sold.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Yes, we're proud of it. We were the first ones to launch a camera phone. The first ones to support 3G technology and also took IBM's concept of a smartphone further. We had launched phones with integrated emails and weather apps much before anybody else. Even today,we're working with Intel on 5G, much before anybody else.

Dr. Oh-No Lost (CEO, Samsung) :
Samsung: Kristian, I feel you. It's quite a sorry state that in spite of having everything, you fell into problem and losses. Where exactly did this go wrong?

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: It's the same answer as always: there are always both external and internal factors for both successes and failures.

Kristian Pushola (CFO, Nokia) :
CFO: Yes, there were many problems that started after 2005, and the dominoes started toppling one after the other. Contrary to popular belief, Nokia did do something wrong. hat's quite a big discussion in itself. Let's continue this further in the future.

Sim Book (CEO, Apple) :
Apple: Sure, let's continue later. It was good discussing this with y'all.